24 April 2010

Papers Please

In "Hunt for Red October" the captain has a conversation with his XO about how America will be. Specifically they discuss the right to travel from place to place:

Capt. Vasili Borodin: I will live in Montana. And I will marry a round American woman and raise rabbits, and she will cook them for me. And I will have a pickup truck... maybe even a "recreational vehicle." And drive from state to state. Do they let you do that?
Captain Ramius: I suppose.
Capt. Vasili Borodin: No papers?
Captain Ramius: No papers, state to state.
Capt. Vasili Borodin: Well then, in winter I will live in... Arizona. Actually, I think I will need two wives.
Captain Ramius: Oh, at least."

In Arizona they have just passed a law that will make it illegal for a citizen to be in public without his papers, even if he is doing nothing that would otherwise be illegal. Opponents of the bill argue that this restricts the rights of the people to travel, while supporters trot out the tired old canard "if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about."

If you can't guess, I am in opposition to this bill because I am in the camp that says that it will end up restricting the rights of a free people to come and go unhindered. This is actually kind of funny, because I had a similar conversation with a co-worker on this very subject not long ago, and if that conversation had not taken place I might not be thinking about the subject in this way.

The co-worker in question was born and raised in Maryland. He served honorably for 20+ years in the US Marine Corps and retired as a Gunnery Sergeant. He is of Hispanic descent, has an Hispanic surname and has the slight olive skin tone to match that surname. He is an American, from the top of his head to the soles of his feet.

In Arizona he had better not walk the streets without his wallet. The simple act of being in public without ID has now become a crime.

In all honesty I had not given it a second thought before then, because I had never had to deal with the possibility that I would be mistaken for any other nationality than American. We're talking PASTY white boy here. Does my USMC friend have any less right to walk down the streets as I? In Arizona it appears as if he does, and that's simply not right. He is as much an American as I am, with all the rights an American has as his birthright.

Yes, there is a real problem with illegal immigration here. Is the answer to seal the borders up tight? A difficult proposition at best, and one that history shows is prone to fail.

The real problem seems to be that people who are here illegally are a drain on public resources without paying taxes. The answer I have is to deny them public assistance beyond basic services (emergency rooms, etc) unless citizenship can be proven. So far as I know, this is one of the major sticking points - that the children of illegals that were born here are "anchor babies" and qualify for public assistance. Key the nationality of the child to the mother and that problem goes away.

(Note that I am sidestepping the question of our very own home-grown worthless that likewise clog the welfare roles. I'm not denying their existence, but they are not the subject here.)

I am not in opposition to a safety net, I am in opposition to a hammock. You should have to establish citizenship in order to qualify for the public dole, that assistance should be for a set amount of time, and there should be a work or school qualifier. If no jobs are to be had in the private sector, surely there is trash alongside the road that needs to be picked up. Take Caesar's coin, pay Caesar's price.

Simple supply and demand, if you supply need you will have no shortage of needy. Would this work, or at least be a part of the solution? I don't know. "Workfare" that was passed by the Republican Revolution Congress and signed by President Clinton seemed to work pretty well, so that could be a good guide.

This goes rather far afield, I did not intend to discuss welfare. There are other problems with illegals, but they all seem to revolve around public assistance of one sort or another. I don't have all the answers, and I suspect any answers would have to be field evaluated for effectiveness. What I do know is that any power will eventually be abused. This is why the powers of Government are supposed to be enumerated and limited.

"Papers please" is not a good way to go.

Thanks for opening my eyes, Mike.

(Yes, I realize that this puts me on the same side of the issue as most Democrats. They can't be wrong all the time, even if it is for the wrong reasons.)

UPDATE: Another idea. All business with government agencies will be conducted in English. We still haven't gotten around to that one.

8 comments:

Anonymous said...

The answer I have is to deny them public assistance beyond basic services (emergency rooms, etc) unless citizenship can be proven.

Wont you need "Papers" for this too? You carry a drivers license to show the police officer when he stops you. Show a library card when needed, health care card, passport when traveling. We all got ID to carry.
There is no easy answer for illegal immigration but we have to do something soon.

Jarhead Mike said...

Years ago, Cheech Marin, of Cheech and Chong fame, did a movie titled "Born in East LA" which touched on this very same subject.
I hope we don't go down the road of having a tiered citizenship.

James said...

I haven't read the law, so I don't know exactly what is there. I agree with the welfare comments you made, specifically regarding benefits to illegals. I am also sympathetic to Gunny's point of view on this issue.

The "illegal alien" problem is the direct result of government inaction. Since there is no way to go back in time and prevent it, we are stuck with either fixing it or living with the problem.

I do not believe it can be fixed by any single method - the welfare reform you suggested, this recent law, or the physical sealing of the border. It is going to take a combination approach if we are going to make any headway.

A sealed border would stop most new entries. Elimination of public assistance would also discourage new arrivals and perhaps encourage those already here to leave. I say perhaps, because what would they be returning to? Nothing significantly better in most cases. This would mean that most would stay.

The idea behind this new AZ law would address this issue. How else are we going to root out those already here? If we permit them to stay, they will continue to mooch, albeit at reduced levels.

I am quite opposed to big brother stepping on our personal liberties. Our government at all levels is already WAY too powerful. However, temporary measures may need to be taken to get a handle on a massive problem such as this.

The key word is "temporary", something that needs to be codified to ensure it doesn't become permanent. Seal the borders, take drastic measures to round up and evict the derelicts, and then we can go back to life as it should have been.

Thoughts?

Larry said...

Initially my thoughts are that no expansion of government power, regardless of how it is worded, ever ends up being temporary.

I have the idea that if you remove the incentives for being here illegally, the illegals will go home.

Perhaps an expansion of the seasonal guest worker policy would help as well.

Like I said, any proposed solutions would have to be field tested for effectiveness. In the end though, I don't think further "reasonable" encroachments on essential liberty is the way to go. The second amendment folks (like yourself) are well aware of how that works out.

Thanks for dropping by James!

Larry said...

I remember that movie Mike. Funny how life ends up imitating art sometimes.
Thanks for dropping by!

Larry said...

Anonymous, you would need these forms of ID to participate in the activities that require them (drivers license to drive, etc). I have no problems with that.
The problem I have is that so far it has not been illegal to be in public without ID. I'd kind of like to see it remain this way.

On a side note, you will notice that I've answered the comments backwards. It's a Google thing I guess; I approve a comment and answer it and then find out there was another comment that came in before. I hope it's not overly confusing.

Thanks for dropping by!

James said...

Initially my thoughts are that no expansion of government power, regardless of how it is worded, ever ends up being temporary.

You are right, but it has happened on very rare occasions: The Clinton assault weapon ban successfully expired after ten years.

I have the idea that if you remove the incentives for being here illegally, the illegals will go home.

It will help, but besides family for some, what does "home" offer? Most who come here illegally come here from some third world dump that isn't worth returning to. I fear that most would stay here underground than return.

Perhaps an expansion of the seasonal guest worker policy would help as well.

I just had a wonderful idea that if implemented would solve most of our financial and immigration woes in one step. Discontinue ALL public assistance of all kinds and at all levels - individual, corporate, international and everything in between. Then open the borders to all but military combatants. Anyone who wants to come here is welcome. No government handouts, no guaranteed loans. Make the punishment fit the crime and no special rules for anyone.

If you work hard and produce, you thrive. Sit on your ass and you will starve. Break the law and you pay dearly. This applies to citizens and non-citizens alike.

In the end though, I don't think further "reasonable" encroachments on essential liberty is the way to go. The second amendment folks (like yourself) are well aware of how that works out.

Right you are.

OK, I'm done. My "answer" isn't feasible, but every so often I need to rant. Thanks for providing the stage.

Larry said...

I don't know what answers will be feasible, but doing nothing isn't much of an option and amnesty is a bad idea as well.
Thanks for dropping by James!